Postpartum University® Podcast

The Art of Balancing Family and Work | Katie Tracey EP 180

• Maranda Bower, Postpartum Nutrition Specialist

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Could Your Postpartum Fatigue, Hair Loss, or Mood Swings Be Signs of a Deeper Issue? In this episode, we dive deep into the common but often misunderstood symptoms of postpartum recovery. Miranda and Katie explore how addressing the root causes of these symptoms, rather than just treating them, can lead to true healing and balance in the body. They discuss the power of cyclical living, Chinese medicine, and alternative holistic wellness practices to support whole-body healing for postpartum mothers. 


Blog Link: https://postpartumu.com/the-art-of-balancing-family-and-work-with-katie-tracey-ep-180/

KEY TIME STAMPS:

0:02 — Maranda’s intro to the science and art of postpartum healing
0:40 — Meet Katie Tracey, yoga teacher, doula, and mom of four boys
1:45 — Katie’s approach to achieving balance with a full family and business
3:20 — Seasonal shifts: honoring each phase of life and motherhood
5:36 — Cyclical living and its impact on wellness and motherhood
6:43 — Katie’s personal journey: linking stress and health challenges
8:58 — Discovering passion for yoga and Chinese medicine
14:01 — Starting a postpartum business after four children
17:32 — The influence of Chinese medicine on Katie’s wellness approach
20:29 — Energy as a foundational concept in holistic healing
25:08 — Listening to your body’s whispers to avoid long-term health issues
26:32 — Simple steps for mothers to connect with their energy postpartum
27:37 — Using breathwork as a healing practice for mothers

Connect with Katie 

Katie is a mom of four, 200 hour registered yoga teacher, postpartum doula and training childbirth educator who is passionate about all things health and wellness. She specializes in working with women at all stages of life to help them harness their energetic wisdom through mental and physical practices. Katie is also passionate about Chinese medicine, meditation, the law of attraction, astrology, and babywearing.

Don’t miss the opportunity to join Katie Tracey’s monthly "Calm Mama" workshop—a space dedicated to helping mothers navigate postpartum with a blend of practical and spiritual wisdom. Additionally, stay tuned for upcoming episodes that will continue to empower you with transformative insights and actionable advice.

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Maranda Bower:

Depression, anxiety and autoimmune symptoms after birth is not how it's supposed to be. There is a much better way and I'm here to show you how to do just that. Hey, my friend, I'm Miranda Bauer, a mother to four kids and a biology student turned scientist, obsessed with changing the world through postpartum care. Join us as we talk to mothers and the providers who serve them and getting evidence-based information that actually supports the mind, body and soul in the years after birth. Hey, everyone, welcome to today's episode.

Maranda Bower:

I'm going to be talking with Katie Tracy. She is also a mom of four we're twinning on that one and she is a registered yoga teacher, postpartum doula and training childbirth educator. And she is incredibly passionate about all things health and wellness, obviously, and she specializes in working at all stages of life to help women harness their energetic wisdom through mental and physical practices. She's also really passionate about Chinese medicine, meditation, law of attraction, astrology, baby wearing. Essentially, we can be best friends. She's got four boys y'all four boys, nine and under. She runs a small menu planning business, a concierge meal planner. She has earned her BS in sociology. Super passionate about birth equity, maternal mental health, all of the things. Katie, welcome, I'm so glad to have you.

Katie Tracey:

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much, Miranda. This is like a pinch me moment to be able to chat with you. So thank you. I'm so blessed to be here.

Maranda Bower:

Okay, you have to tell everyone, as a mother of four, you're a yoga teacher, postpartum doula, you're training for childbirth education. Like, how do you fit all of this in? What does balance look like for you in your life?

Katie Tracey:

Oh, what a great question. So balance, I feel like it is something that is you're constantly looking for, like it's not something that you reach, it's not a spot that you attain, and then all of a sudden you're like, wow, my life is balanced. I was just chatting with her for this morning, telling her I'm in one of those stages where I'm just having glass, I'm just lifting the glass balls. My kids are all home for the summer. Usually two of them are in full day school and one is in half day. So I do have a lot more flexibility during the school year to do the extra things, the extra trainings and growing the business. But right now I'm just in full-time mom working with my clients in person and then taking like the most important opportunities that come on my plate.

Katie Tracey:

So it's a, it's a. It's a juggle, but what I've learned just through my yoga experience as a teacher and a practitioner is just that you're always just straight, striving for equanimity, like you're not trying to, you know, really do too much at once. I mean, you just have to kind of just take it easy sometimes and really charge sometimes. So, like I said, it's not something that balance isn't something that you necessarily reach and you're like, yeah, I'm there, I've done it. Um, it's just something. That is just, I'm always trying to figure out what's the most important and and do that.

Maranda Bower:

I was, uh, just giving a talk recently at my church's local like mom group and they had met the other evening and I showed up and that was a huge component, like how do you balance it all? Like all of the things you know, I have four kids and I run a successful business and homes, like we partial homeschool and homestead and like you know all of the things, and I'm a school, a full-time student right and back in college again for neurobiology of all subjects.

Katie Tracey:

Yeah, very easy.

Maranda Bower:

Yeah, and, and it's so interesting, like this ebb and the flow right, and understanding that sometimes it does feel like a juggling act and we all have these seasons and right now I am in the season it's summertime, I've got all of my kids home, my business is on the back burner, really Like it's great to have these moments of conversation and then, as soon as I'm done here, I'm going to be back with my kids for a little bit until I get a moment of peace and, hopefully, nap time or gymnastics practice, you know. And so we're just like we're in this season, but soon, you know, they're all going to go back to school. Actually, this is going to be the first time that I have all four kids in school. It's going to feel, feel like a lot of my oldest is 14.

Maranda Bower:

And so I am like I'm just waiting for that moment, that next phase and and our lives, and cherishing what we have going on here, even through all of the chaos, and knowing that there's going to be another side to it as well. That's such a beautiful, like you know, not balance, like ebb and flow.

Katie Tracey:

Right, maybe maybe balance isn't the goal. You know, not balance like ebb and flow, like, right, maybe balance isn't the goal, you know, maybe the goal is to be okay with the season that we're in and not always like get down on ourselves because things don't feel super balanced, like things have seasons, and I think learning about cyclical living too has helped me a lot to really turn in and be like why do I feel so disconnected from my career? Like why is everything bothering me? Why do I feel so down in the dumps? Oh, this is where I am in my cycle.

Katie Tracey:

Like this, this part of my cycle calls for rest. This part of my cycle doesn't call for for striving and charging this. This part in this time in my life, this week or two weeks time, my body's telling me I need to rest and so I really try to honor that. Of course, like four kids home in the summer, they want to be outside all the time. My husband wants to use every weekend doing lawn projects and house projects, like we are in a go go go society. But I really try to honor like checking in with myself and and pushing back against that, like just constant go, go go and knowing when I need to rest and and knowing that if I honor that, that's going to allow me more energy in my periods where I do need to put a lot of energy in.

Maranda Bower:

I am so glad that you said this. I was actually just having a conversation with a friend about the cyclical living and she was actually talking about her sex life like and how she feels like she's into it for two weeks out of the month and then the other two weeks out of the month she's not, and I'm like that's perfect, like that's your cycle, there's nothing wrong with that.

Katie Tracey:

The problem is that society expects us to be the same person every single day when we wake up and just repeat, repeat, repeat. And we now know that women run on an infradian system and not a circadian system. We run on a way more cyclical flow than men do. Our hormones are cyclical, our energy is cyclical and and really through evolution, we have, you know, if you trace it back to how women I mean even especially postpartum. But but even when women would get their period, like there was a place where they could go and they could relax and they could, they could be with other women, they could be supported by other women, and that was totally um, it was totally valued by society.

Katie Tracey:

Everybody understood it and somewhere along the lines it's just been molded into the society that just expects us to like, wake up and and just throw our energy at every single thing every single day and and my personal opinion, the longer that you push back against that as a female through your cycles, if you're a cycling woman for 20, 30, 40 years and if you just try to ignore that every single cycle, every single month, the birth control pill or or with you know, just being part of society and feeding into that being part of society and feeding into that, those beliefs, that you're going to end up probably having some sort of health crisis in your forties, fifties, sixties, because your body's not going to know what to do Once you approach perimenopause and menopause. It's not going to know what, how to really function. It's the everything's. The train's just going to go off the tracks and unfortunately, we see this rise in autoimmune diseases in women in their late forties, early fifties, and we think it's just like coincidental. But it's not.

Katie Tracey:

I personally feel like if we spend more time focusing and honoring our system and I myself didn't learn about this until my early thirties, mid thirties, and I feel like it's one of those things Once you learn it, you can't unlearn it and you have to just tell everybody because everybody needs to know. At least that's how it kind of hit on me, um, so yeah, it's, it's important, it's important.

Maranda Bower:

I want to hear your story Like how, how did this all unfold for?

Katie Tracey:

you? Yeah, thank you so much for asking. So I'll go back. I'm not super far into my childhood but but as a child I always loved being outside. I played soccer competitively, I swam, I loved being at the beach. I'm from central New Jersey, where there's four seasons and every single season was like doing the outdoor thing. So we're skiing in the winter, we're, you know, going to the beach in the summer, and the Jersey shore, um.

Katie Tracey:

But um 2004, I was passionate about soccer. I was training, I was hoping I was going to get to be able to play in college and I, unfortunately, I tore my ACL. I was at a training camp, um away for the summer, um, playing soccer, and I tore my ACL. Um, so I ended up in physical therapy, which was the first time I actually considered like this is a cool career, like I really like this. I think this guy who I go to see every day after school is like that's a cool lifestyle. Um, so I kind of kept that in the back of my mind. Um kind of derailed my soccer plans.

Katie Tracey:

I did go back to playing, but not as competitively, and so I found myself in college in 2005, starting to figure out what I wanted to quote unquote, do with my life. I went into college thinking I wanted to study business. I took one micro economics class and was like not for me. So I kind of found myself pursuing classes that just sounded interesting to me. So I kind of found myself pursuing classes that just sounded interesting to me and I took a few classes in sociology. I found them really, really interesting. I took a couple more. I really love the professors and the knowledge, everything that I was learning. So I decided to major in sociology. But like you, miranda, I have always been passionate about the human body and everything.

Katie Tracey:

So I did a minor in biology, which my chemistry teacher told me like nobody does this. Like she took me aside and she's like this is not a thing that people do, this is not you. Don't put yourself through this If you're not getting the full degree. Like this is not just something people do for fun. And I was like well, this is what I'm doing for fun, you know, I really, really liked it. I love studying genetics, I love studying population biology. I didn't think I wanted to do medicine, so I didn't um as like a career path. So I didn't major in pre-med or anything like that, but I kept the biology minor, even though I was told it wasn't really, you know, going to serve me, but I was interested in it. So I had. I graduated, I had this degree.

Katie Tracey:

I wasn't sure what to do and then, just a couple of months after I graduated, my dad actually passed away suddenly. So this is the summer of 2009. And what happened over the next year, between the time he died and the year following, was I started to notice in myself like prior to this, I was a very healthy person. I never, ever, ever got sick and I started catching every single flu, cough, cold, like every anything that came through I caught, and I started to really just plant a seed in my mind that there is a link between stress and disease. There's a link between going through something very, very stressful and how your body, you know how your immune system behaves. Like I knew that in the back of my mind, but I really wasn't quite sure how everything connected. I just felt like it was a very interesting link. I'm like, why this year, why this year of all the years, am I getting every single cough and cold? Why am I so susceptible to these diseases now, when I wasn't before? And um, and so I, through my healing, I started practicing yoga. I became very, very passionate about it and I became a yoga instructor Also.

Katie Tracey:

At the same time I was looking for a part-time job and I got connected with an acupuncture office which I ended up staying an employee of for about a decade. Even after I moved back to California I stayed like doing things virtually for them. I just felt like there was so much wisdom and knowledge in Chinese medicine and how the energy meridians and how they were able to use little pins to conduct energy and help energy flow, and it really related to yoga to me. So I was kind of just all of these things were kind of just starting to link up in my head. I decided I wanted to study public health as a master's and I went back. I got accepted to a program. I actually didn't end up doing the program. I took one class but I was doing fundraising professionally on the side and I really enjoyed that and I just kind of thought like I'll just keep this job. This is what I want to do for a living. I don't need any more careers. I really, really like this. I don't need any more education.

Katie Tracey:

Of course, life ended up having my kids and I kind of got distanced from these passions of mine. I just went full on mom mode, had four kids in seven years, really just took that on. And then I found myself about a year postpartum with my fourth, kind of hitting a mental, physical, emotional wall. I found myself really detached from my passion. I was practicing yoga from time to time, but I wasn't teaching. I didn't have a career of my own. I didn't have. I just was full on mom mode.

Katie Tracey:

Um, so my friend said hey, you might like this podcast. It's about the law of attraction. Um, I started studying the law of attraction, I started visualizing my future and then one thing after another, um, these little inspirational sparks came to me a friend mentioning what postpartum doula work is. A friend mentioning that they that they needed a yoga teacher for their studio. Somebody mentioning you know little little things here and there, little seeds that I started following. And two years later I have a meal planning business. I have a postpartum doula practice, doula practice. I'm working on bringing my practice virtual in a lot of different ways so I can serve more families nationwide and worldwide. I'm working with a family from France right now.

Katie Tracey:

It seems like so awesome to be able to expand that far but long story short. I've just always really been interested in the blend between stress and disease and when I found your work, miranda, it just seemed like you took everything that I have thought and just put it so succinctly into words and phrases that I can that I can share with other people. When I host my calm mama workshop, one of the first slides is like an image of your postpartum, like the four stages of the postpartum decline, because it really is. It's just so, you know. It's just exactly the words that are in my head, but just just verbalized. So I'm so grateful to have, you know, been connected to you and your podcast and just been able to learn from you, know your wisdom and really borrow your words and your teachings to help my families.

Maranda Bower:

Thank you. Thank you. That is such a beautiful, a beautiful compliment and I am taking it to heart. So thank you so much. Hey, I'm going to be 100% straight with you.

Maranda Bower:

The postpartum world is changing right now and I know you feel it. It's in the politics, our community spaces. There is an urgent need to implement a different approach to postpartum health. If you're an alternative provider or postpartum advocate, you need to be with us in the Postpartum University. Pro Membership Get the method, the tools, the handouts, the advanced trainings and so much more to not only help your clients and your business grow, but to help you grow too.

Maranda Bower:

Marketwatch says that the afterbirth services and nutrition and support is set for extraordinary growth by 2030. Don't miss your opportunity to help women and families who desperately need your holistic support. Go to wwwpostpartumucom. Slash membership. We're accepting registrations right now and we can't wait to see you there. I'm so curious, like you have this beautiful story and you're like I'm loving listening to, like all of the pieces, and I can relate so much. I was actually a doula and a childbirth educator for many, many years, and biology is definitely that thing that makes me all excited and gooey, and so I feel like we we connect on so many different levels and I'm really curious, because you have this introduction and this experience into Chinese medicine, and I'd love to know how that has influenced your approach to care and wellness in this postpartum period.

Katie Tracey:

Totally so. The idea behind Chinese wellness is that the body is a system. The body is not a thousand different separate parts, so the somebody will come in. I remember having a conversation with with one of the practitioners there and she would say you know, it will be four or five sessions before somebody says, oh yeah, well, I do struggle with anxiety. Or oh yeah, well, I do have irritable bowels, and they think they're coming in for a shoulder, you know thing. And then and then it opens up and they don't think that that information pertains to the symptom that they're having.

Katie Tracey:

But viewing the whole body as a system and knowing that, um, you know one, something happening in one part of your body is connecting another, that's one huge part. And then another huge part is the actual physical energy, the meridians that flow through the body. Um, and the ability to conduct the energy in that fascial layer. To me is just the. The link, personally, I feel like, is the link between um, like people leave a yoga class and they wonder why do I feel so good? Well, you basically were or leave an acupuncture session, why do I feel so good?

Katie Tracey:

Because you move that energy through you, you were able to unlock or, um, um, untwine some of those energy centers where, where things are getting stuck, um, and I also think that Chinese medicine in general just values um, values wellness a little bit more. I think in Eastern medicine, or sorry, in Western medicine, they really want to give you a prescription. They, you know, you go to one doctor for cardiology, you go to another doctor for GI, you go to another doctor for something else, and that there's all of these, these parts that are just operating so independently of one another and nobody wants to look at the what the other person, you know what the other part is going through. And so I just think that viewing the body as a system, viewing health and wellness as a system, and just it, leaves so much more potential for healing.

Maranda Bower:

It's so, so true, the differences between Western and Eastern care and medicine. And I think Chinese medicine really understands this energetic component which our science has yet to fully understand, I think. And we compartmentalize health and we also compartmentalize science. So it's like biology is over here, medicine is over here, and then we have physics and quantum physics which lies over here, and they don't go together in the least. And and I think Chinese medicine is like no, they're like let's combine all of these components. And I hear so many people and in the field tell me often I hear this so often well, energy is just like that woo stuff. And it's like oh, no, no, no no, no, no, not at all.

Katie Tracey:

And I think I think that was a very, I think it was a very strategic move by certain people in power to try and make quantum physics like the, the woo science and the science that nobody wants to appeal to, because if you believe, you know that, um, if you believe in energy, then you don't believe in, maybe, a superior energy, like if you believe in communal energy, and so I think that that, like I think it was very strategic, the, the distancing of our understanding of our own inner wisdom and our own intellect, and I think I just really appreciate how you are going and you're kind of rewriting this narrative.

Katie Tracey:

I was listening to when you were a guest on another podcast and somebody said you were talking about postpartum decline and you said something about like hair loss and things, and they were like, oh well, that could, that's just your thyroid. And you very politely like, clocked back back, well, well, what do you think is making putting your thyroid off like you have to go a level deeper. You can't just say that's your thyroid. Yes, that very much. Those might be symptoms of a dysfunctional thyroid, but why is your thyroid dysfunctional and how do we fix it? And we're not going to just take a pill to fix it and say that that's, that's good and that's fixed, because it might be fixing the symptom but it's not actually healing the body. And that's where I think Western medicine falls off.

Maranda Bower:

That was such a crazy episode that I did and I won't say who it was, but you guys can like go listen to different podcast episodes and you'll come across it, I'm sure. But I am really, really surprised that person actually posted that episode because, as you heard, like my question, even though it was ever so gentle and polite, really stirred some stuff for her and you could tell in the podcast that she was upset and like apologizing to her audience, y'all. It was crazy. It was crazy. So, um, but yeah, it was like we have to go deeper and there is this other piece and this other understanding.

Maranda Bower:

You know, I I was just giving a talk not too long ago, uh, about how our bodies are meant to be in a state of balance. It's and that word being true right, like maybe not all of the things in our life, but our bodies are meant to be in a state of equilibrium and it wants to heal, it wants to be in what we call homeostasis, right? Yes, that's the term for balance within our body and it, just because we have a baby, just because something happens in our life, doesn't necessarily mean that we're supposed to feel these things. Those symptoms arise when our body is not being cared for. So that's a biological normal. It's a biological normal to experience depression, anxiety, hair loss, all of these things, when our bodies aren't getting the support that it so desperately needs. And it's amazing to me and I think you're so right, like the strategy to remove the energy component, katie, there is now a watch that you wear in postpartum that will tell you whether or not you have depression. Like we legit need a gadget now and I and I get it. Like so many of us don't understand, like what we're going through.

Maranda Bower:

Uh, one of the gals at this talk that I was giving she had mentioned, uh, she was like well, I was told that if I have depression, I just cry a lot. And she was like I didn't cry a lot, I was just numb and I didn't, so I didn't know. And it's like the and a part of it is this huge disconnect that we have to the experiences of motherhood and and within our bodies, and we've been taught to be disconnected and we've been taught that, oh, don't go to Google for anything. Don't go do your own research. You're clearly not a doctor. You need to go see a doctor who doesn't even know anything about postpartum. You know all of the things remain as disconnected as possible so that we can continue selling you your gadgets and your pills, and and all and the supplement lines and all of the things that are going to continue to bring you further away from your inner knowing, which I will tell you is scientifically proven. Okay, I was just reading a study on female intuition is mind-blowing, absolutely mind-blowing.

Katie Tracey:

The information that we have on a scientific level that is not being shared One of the most influential phrases that I heard during my yoga teacher training that I did in over 10 years ago now, that I still share in almost every single class, is if you listen to your body whisper, you won't have to hear it scream.

Katie Tracey:

And I think so many times in life we just try to push away the little whispers and we want to deal with things when we are in, you know, tremendous amount of pain or a tremendous amount of sadness, and we want to just let everything get to the extremes before we honor it. And, like you were saying, there is so much wisdom like they don't call it trusting your gut for nothing Like there is wisdom in your body. There is a whole nervous system in your body, outside of your brain, and you think that you know everything comes from up here, but it doesn't. We know so much, we're taking in so much stimulus all the time and um, the it's not just what's coming through our eyes and our ears, like we're getting. We are all connected. There is a web of energy that's connecting everyone and that energy, um, you know, can just be, can be downloaded. You can. You can your brain as a, as a, as a supercomputer, can download information from the energetic network at any point in time.

Maranda Bower:

I want to talk with you really briefly before we close. Like, how can mothers tap into their own energetic wisdom during the postpartum period, assuming that maybe they've never been introduced to this or this whole talk, this whole idea is brand new and they're just understanding. Hey, I need to do something differently, because how I'm experiencing postpartum, how I'm healing this, is not working out. So what do I do now? How do I tap into this and actually heal my body and feel good as a woman and as a mother?

Katie Tracey:

Totally so I created a Zoom workshop that I host monthly. It's called Calm Mama and it kind of addresses a lot of these questions in kind of a one hour. It's like an amalgamation of all of my interests and passions kind of put into one Um. So some of the things that I share there, uh are like it's kind of it's a blend of woo and practical advice. So, um, the there are some breathing techniques that I share there, um, diaphragmatic breathing, 360 breath.

Katie Tracey:

I tell everyone and I do it in all my yoga classes, prenatal, postpartum um, learning how to breathe well is going to be the most, uh, life-changing thing that you'll ever be able to do for your health and wellness. And, and like you were saying before, with these gadgets and these pills, um, a lot of it is is just extra Like I like to focus a lot on lifestyle medicine. So, getting rest, honoring your rest, asking for help, getting fresh air, moving your body, eating well, eating nourishing foods. So I have we go. We go over a lot of this in our workshop. And then I do a little bit of a brief intro to the law of attraction.

Katie Tracey:

For me, the law of attraction has been my portal for my relationship with spirituality. I think there are a lot of um different avenues that people can can access kind of this universal wisdom through lots of different ways. For me it was. It was the law of attraction, um, so we go into that as well and um, breathing deeply, meditating, um, just taking the time to get to know yourself, tune in, listen, I mean, talk therapy can be great. I know it's a barrier for a lot of people because it's another, another thing to schedule, another thing to prioritize it's.

Maranda Bower:

It's usually not massive oh my gosh.

Katie Tracey:

And again, we're usually waiting until we're in like acute crisis to reach out and like that's not the time when you have the energy or the mental capacity to like call 14 different places, you know.

Katie Tracey:

So, especially postpartum um, I think the number one thing is surrounding yourself with a good support system, um making sure that you have the help, um knowing that you know, knowing what can come up.

Katie Tracey:

I was just hosting my workshop the other night and one of the moms on it said I've taken my daughter to the pediatrician twice already. She's she's three weeks old. I've taken her twice Like and I cried both times at my appointment, like the doctor didn't care and and she's like I'm so glad that you're doing this and that you have this, because the system and I'm like I don't want to scare you, but you're probably going to be overwhelmed by your six week checkup too, like it's just the support isn't necessarily there in the medical field, and so um finding resources, like yourself myself, um really just doing the work and and and knowing that you know the resources are out there. Um, but if I were to say in a word, one one place to start would be at the most fundamental, would be go to YouTube, type in diaphragmatic breathing or 360 breathing, and that would be, I think, the right, very foundational starting point.

Maranda Bower:

It's the breath of life, right, and we did a whole podcast episode. I have a whole training in the all access pass on this very topic because it's so incredibly important and, again, like one of the fundamentals to life. So I highly recommend it. And, of course, where can people find you?

Katie Tracey:

Yeah, so I hang out mostly on Instagram. I'm at life and bloom wellness. Um, I have a couple of virtual offerings that I do. Like I mentioned the workshop. Um, I also do one-on-one coaching. Um, it's called had the baby? Now what? Um, because I, I had that. That was literally my feeling after I left the hospital with my first child, like wait, wait, wait, you just let us go. What, what, what now? Um, and I unfortunately, I think lots of parents end up there. So I'm virtual. And then, if you happen to be in central New Jersey, I teach prenatal yoga. I teach mommy and me yoga and I do in-person support. So my website is lifeandbloomwellnessco and I'm on Instagram and that's mostly where you can find me.

Maranda Bower:

And of course, we have all of those links in the show notes. Absolutely, go, take a look, check her out. Like her page. All of the things, katie. Thank you so, so much for being here.

Katie Tracey:

Thank you for having me, miranda, it was a blessing.

Maranda Bower:

I am so grateful you turned into the Postpartum University podcast. We've hoped you enjoyed this episode enough to leave us a quick Thank you learn the real truth and the real tools needed to heal in the years postpartum. You can learn more at wwwpostpartumucom. We'll see you next week.

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