Postpartum University® Podcast

Postpartum Spirituality and the Taboo | Janelle Lara EP 188

• Maranda Bower, Postpartum Nutrition Specialist

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If I follow the moon cycles for my menstrual cycles, am I a bad Christian?
If I meditate or practice yoga to calm my body, does that separate me from God?
If my doula practices Reiki, am I inviting in dangerous energy?

In this episode, Maranda and theologian Janelle Lara tackle heavy questions that Christian women wrestle with as they seek holistic wellness and healing in the postpartum years. We explore new mothers' spiritual journeys and how alternative practices such as meditation, energy work & natural cycles can complement Christian faith and postpartum wellness.

Check out the episode on the blog:
https://postpartumu.com/postpartum-spirituality-and-the-taboo-janelle-lara-ep-188/

Connect with Janelle:
Janelle Lara is a Theologian who focuses primarily on the intersection between Alternative Spirituality and Christian Theology in her research. She enjoys sharing her studies and presenting her findings on her youtube channel, @janellemlara. She lives in Southeast Georgia with her husband and young children.
 
Janelle's YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/@JanelleMLara


TIMESTAMPS:
00:00: Introducing Christian perspectives on meditation, energy work, and body rhythms
02:12: Defining meditation in a Christian context
04:15: Historical role of women in spiritual practices
07:33: Christian concerns around energy work
09:05: Exploring Biblical teachings on meditation
11:47: Energy in the Bible: How does it fit?
14:50: Energy as God's creation
16:30: Aligning energy practices with faith
19:02: Prayer vs. meditation: A Christian comparison
21:20: Role of the Holy Spirit in energy and meditation
23:45: Rhythms of the body: Tuning into God’s creation
26:38: Misunderstandings around energy work in Christian communities
29:10: Importance of intent in spiritual practices
31:45: Meditation as a tool for restoring peace and connection
34:23: Christian meditation in everyday life
36:50: Embodying faith in a holistic way
40:17: Final thoughts on Christian meditation and energy

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Speaker 1:

Depression, anxiety and autoimmune symptoms after birth is not how it's supposed to be. There is a much better way, and I'm here to show you how to do just that. Hey, my friend, I'm Miranda Bauer, a mother to four kids and a biology student turned scientist, obsessed with changing the world through postpartum care. Join us as we talk to mothers and the providers who serve them and getting evidence-based information that actually supports the mind, body and soul in the years after birth. Okay, hello, everyone, I'm going to tell you that this is going to be an episode that I have never done before, and today on this show, I have one of my absolute most bestest friends, and I'm going to tell you I do not use that term lightly. I have very few amazing people in my life that I call my best friends, and Janelle Laura is absolutely one of them. She is a theologian who focuses primarily on the intersection between alternative spirituality and Christian theology and her research, and she really enjoys sharing her studies and presenting her findings on her YouTube channel at Janelle M Laura, and we're going to have that in the links here, too. Channel at Janelle M Laura, and we're going to have that in the links here, too. She lives in Southeast Georgia with her husband and her young kids, and her and I are literally like we talk about this stuff for hours on end per week, like seriously. Our lives are like leaving voice notes for each other that are not short.

Speaker 1:

And before we get into all of this, I really want to have a conversation about why she's on this podcast, because this is very different. She's not here just because she's my bestie, but because postpartum is this time of profound transformation. It's not just physical, it's mental, emotional and deeply spiritual, and often women seek this higher power during this time more than ever. And over the last 15 plus years of working with women in postpartum, I've witnessed how this period brings this deep rooted fear and questions, especially for Christian mothers who are exploring practices that they feel, like you know, might be a conflict. Right, like I hear. Well, if I follow the moon cycles for my menstrual cycles, am I a bad Christian? If I meditate or practice yoga to calm my body, does that separate me from God? Or if my doula practices energy healing like Reiki, am I inviting something in that's really dangerous? And these are like really heavy questions that Christian women wrestle with as they seek wellness and healing in their bodies during the years that are postpartum.

Speaker 1:

And Janelle is here to really help us break these misconceptions and offer clarity. As a theologian who focuses on this intersection which, I will tell you, I have never seen anyone ever do this kind of work together alternative spirituality and Christian theology and so we're going to dive deep into these myths and fears and misinterpretations that really surround spiritual practices, particularly in postpartum and motherhood. And so, with all of that said, whether you're someone who stays true to like the Christian faith, or you're wanting to find a path that resonates with your soul, take what you want, leave the rest, but know this conversation is going to shed some light on so many of the questions that you have been holding on to. So, with that massive introduction, janelle, I love you. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2:

Miranda, thank you so much for having me. That was the most, the kindest, most generous introduction. I so appreciate you and I mean you have changed my life. Like you're what you teach. All of the work that you do for postpartum women has absolutely impacted me so much, um, especially with my last two births, which were after I met you thank God praise God.

Speaker 2:

I met you before I had my um, my second and my third, and it's just, it's amazing the work that you do. So I'm so honored and so thrilled to be here and to share what I know with your audience.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, and you have literally transformed my life when it comes to the conversation that we're having today. Like you blow my mind on the daily and I'm constantly y'all, I'll be like, hey, janelle, what do you think about this? Like, okay, okay, I'm thinking about, like you know, psychics, and like I'm thinking about like time-lapse and like the quantum theories, and like and like we hash out all of these topics all the time and it's like it really is such a shift and perspective in the way that we live our life and especially in like, okay, postpartum motherhood, right, such a time for change. So many moms feel torn between following their intuition, right, and and then their religious upbringing, like they're two separate things and Christianity. Can you explain alternative spirituality let's start there and is it different than practicing religion like Judaism or Christianity?

Speaker 2:

Yes, so, miranda, this is such a fascinating topic and I love that it's a topic that really seems to pertain specifically to women, and I think a lot of that actually has to do. There's a huge correlation, I think, between women feeling this pull towards being more intuitive and the fact that it's the women who give birth and who experience cycles. Right. A man, when it comes to procreation and like the most important thing that we do as human beings right, which is, you know, give birth and have children and procreate and and, and you know, continue our species from a biological perspective, it's the most important thing we do. Right. For a man, it's a very intentional process, like he experiences an urge, he acts on an urge and then there's a consequence to that urge, which is a baby right, and so he can kind of see like, oh yeah, I made the decisions that led to this right.

Speaker 2:

For a woman, it's like right, you make the decisions that lead to the creation, but after that your body takes over, right, and so it's like every month, we're experiencing things that we have nothing to do with.

Speaker 2:

Our body just does them on their own, and then we get pregnant and it's like we have nothing to do with it. The body just grows the baby all by itself, and then we go through this birthing process, you know, and if you're fortunate, you know it follows, kind of this. You know we've given birth a couple of times now so we can recognize kind of the pattern of birth and like you start with your contractions and then, right before you're going to transition, your body backs off right, like you get a break, right, and then you really put in the hard work, right, but then you end up with this baby and it's like that was the cycle, like that, right there, birth is a cycle and so we, as women, I think we're really created to experience these cycles and we feel drawn to them because they are what give us, you know, this beautiful experience of motherhood, right, this really hard you know, really hard but also really beautiful experience.

Speaker 2:

And so I think it's just, it is something our intuition is, something that I think feels more natural to us, because we see how our body does amazing things without any apparent external. Like, how does our body know when to go into labor? Right, and it's like it's not an external, there's nothing that happens externally, it's all internal. And so we feel this pull to really listen to what's going on inside of us, what's going on inside of our bodies, right, and when we call that intuition alternative spirituality to go back to your original question alternative spirituality is really any form of going internally right as any form of that turning inward, not in a hedonistic or narcissistic way, but turning into the divine within us. Right, with any spiritual practice that is not kind of in alignment with Western Christian spirituality that has really come to the forefront over just the past 200 years. Because I think if we went back to the Christian church a thousand years ago, 250 years ago, we would see a lot of these kind of mystical practices. We would see meditation being practiced regularly. Because, why? Because people couldn't actually read, right, like we couldn't crack open our Bible. They actually weren't. Even if we could read, there weren't books around, they weren't quite so accessible, right, and so it's like many people couldn't actually make it to church because they lived, you know, in a rural area or what have you. And so what could we do? Right, we could go inward, we could pray, we could, you know, speak other languages of God, which you know we can get to. And so, naturally, you know, several decades ago and centuries ago, our spiritual practices were more internal, looked a lot more like meditation, looked a lot more like, you know, this internal prayer, mental prayer is another word for it. But over the last, you know, 200 years, really, ever since the enlightenment, things have changed a lot, you know, and the church has changed a lot, and we've lost that connection, that more intuitive connection to God. And then also, we've been introduced to Eastern cultures, right, and so their spiritual practices have started to become, have been introduced to us and to our culture, um, um, have been introduced to us and to our culture.

Speaker 2:

And, uh, I think, unfortunately, because of the uh, so I'm a Catholic theologian, so I'm going to speak, you know, about the Catholic and Protestants and from that purview, just because that's, that's where I come from, I think, because of the internal discourse between Catholics and Protestants that has been going on for so many centuries, we see any, and because we've been trying to prove that our version of Christianity is the truth, like that our religion is true. Because, you know, 500 years ago there there was no, there was no doubt. There was no conversation like apologetics, right, like what was that? Right. There was no conversation about truth because everyone just assumed one truth, right.

Speaker 2:

But because there has been this discourse ever since the Protestant Reformation, anything else that shows up, you know, and wants to be perceived as truth or perceived as a viable religion, is seen as a threat. Right, because no, my way is the truth right. And so, again, these are all relatively recent. This idea of something being alternative, this idea of something being an alternative truth, is something that is seen especially dangerous in our current religious climate that we're in right now.

Speaker 1:

This is absolutely fascinating to me and I think back to the time, even just as children, right Like if we look back at who we are as children and I was this kid I was very much in my body, I was very much into the spiritual realm and I wanted to know about God all the time. I asked my parents all the time will you take me to church? Who is God Like? What is? What is this feeling that I have and I see it in my own children too there's lots of questions, there's lots of understanding, like, but this is what I feel in my body. There's a like, a underlying spiritual spirituality that exists.

Speaker 1:

That is is very different from I'm gonna sit down and read this book and I'm going to do this motion and I'm going to show up in church and like. It's a very different way of putting yourself into a position of loving God, right Like, where I almost feel like just hearing you speak. We have a very masculine way of like go to church, read your Bible, do this work, yeah, and that's one way of of like. That's, that's religion. And then you have spirituality, which is this deep, profound understanding of who God is within your body and within within humanity.

Speaker 2:

A hundred percent. And, miranda, you'll notice that everything that you just named, those are things that are external, that other people can see us doing. So the masculine, that's the thing it has to be. I have to be able to see it, I have to be able to understand it, I have to be able to know it Right. And so it's like we can read the Bible, we can, you know, pray again as a Catholic, we can pray a rosary, we can go to church, we can receive the sacraments, but those are things that are external.

Speaker 2:

And meditation, uh, that internal prayer, that mysticism that, again, was incredibly prominent in the Christian church for that, like a thousand years, okay, um, and maybe even longer, those are things that are private and personal and other people don't see them happening. And so, you know, I think, in particular, if you are, you know, let's say, um, a member of a religion that you want to prove that you know your religion is is better or more true, you're going to focus on those external things that you can do, right, to show, to show your relationship, to show how religious you are, to show, um, you know how much you love God, right. And then there's a, there's a competitive aspect to that as well, which is very masculine.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So I'm also hearing you say like I'm like trying to pick out all of these things, Like there's so much wisdom in what you're sharing here, in your research. You're you're saying that what you're finding, this fear surrounding practices like yoga and Reiki and even using herbs for healing, which I am seeing a massive amount of population and the Christian population saying this is bad, this is no good. There's so much fear and misunderstanding around these pieces because of share. Share more with us, because I feel like this is another area of conversation here.

Speaker 2:

Totally. I mean, we the Christian, the fundamentalist Christian culture, and I think that there is I'm going to try to word this in a way that is sensitive, right, that is a phenomenon that has been used by the church to instill fear and garner obedience, right, and so there is kind of that like we can use that kind of patriarchal argument. And I just want to say that I am part of an incredibly patriarchal church that I really love and I think is aligned, you know, biblically aligned. So I'm not against the patriarchy, necessarily, but the devil, I think, has been used as a tool and as a weapon. And you know, when we, when you look at what inspires emotion in human beings, right, anger and fear are two emotions that are extremely powerful and, in particular, fear is probably the most powerful weapon that one can use if you are trying to get control over a population, right, and so what I find, you know, as I'm kind of hanging out online and on social media I find that when someone has something to sell or something to offer right, when someone has a particular process or a particular methodology, right, has a particular process or a particular methodology, right, fear is a really, really successful way to get people to do your thing, your way, your methodology, without question, like it's almost like like fear is, you know, this very primordial emotion, and when we're afraid, we're not using our prefrontal cortex, right, we're not being analytical, we're not asking hard questions, right. And so I think, as the population has become more and more educated, right, as the population like, we really can read the Bible for ourselves, now we really can.

Speaker 2:

You know, there are so many options when it comes to church. I mean, gosh, like, if I want to go to church, I have a church over here, I have a church over there, I have the Baptist church, I have the Methodist church, I have the Catholic church, right, there are. We have so many options that I think, unfortunately and I'm not blaming any particular person or denomination or religion for this, but I think the devil, right, you know evil, the darkness, right, you know evil, the darkness, right, however you want to put, that is really like, on the one hand, he's convincing people that he doesn't exist, right, and that we don't even need to worry about that. And that's what's happening really in the new age arena, which I do like to distinguish between alternative spirituality and new age. So I think in the new age, it's all good, it's all light. You know it doesn't exist. But I think, when it comes to on the religious side, I think the devil himself is really encouraging this fear, really encouraging this mode of manipulation and control.

Speaker 1:

Okay, you just said that there is a difference between new age spirituality and alternative spirituality. There is. Let's unpack that for a second here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yes, yes. So the way that I define alternative spirituality is again, just really these spiritualities that are very popular in alternative religions, meaning alternative to like Western cultures, so like Christian and Jewish and Muslim, basically Eastern religions such as Buddhism, hinduism. They offer alternatives, right. They have a completely different form of prayer, they have a completely different way of interacting with the world and in nature. You know it's certainly there are things that I don't agree with, but I think I know it's certainly there are things that I don't agree with, but I think I mean we have studies, like we have data that show, like, how good meditation is, how good yoga can be for the body, how good Reiki and energy healing can be for the body. I mean there is like hard, objective data that tells us that these things are beneficial, us that these things are beneficial, right. And so alternative spirituality to me just means more of this reminder of this, more internal spirituality that isn't quite so dependent on those external signs of holiness and morality, because, again, one of the arguments against Eastern religions is that they don't have the same codes of morality that the Christian religions do. They really aren't quite so moral, but that means that they don't have to show off to one another, right and so, anyways, we could go into that further. But yeah, there is a difference.

Speaker 2:

New Age spirituality it's kind of this very specific movement, and they call it New Age because, you know, we're entering, we're going from the age of Pisces into the age of Aquarius, and that's a transition that happens every 2,100 years or so, and so at the time of Jesus's birth we were exiting the age of Aries and entering the age of Pisces, and so, you know, jesus kind of ushered in the Piscean age. The new age spirituality. What they claim is that Christianity was for the Piscean age. We're moving into a new age, the age of Aquarius, and we no longer need Christianity, we no longer need organized religion, we no longer need Jesus.

Speaker 2:

And really it also really promotes this belief that we are God, we are manifestations of God, that God is everywhere. It promotes this kind of pantheism, kind of what I would consider spiritually dangerous in specifically new age spirituality, because kind of their claim is that there is no darkness, it's all light and, you know, through reincarnation it's just kind of God wanting to experience everything, and so so really it what it leads to is kind of this like never ending evolution of um, of a soul, right Gosh, I don't know. To me it sounds like hell actually, Like I'm like, oh my God, so like in this lifetime I'm a girl and then the next lifetime I'll be the boy and I'll be the husband or I'll be the father.

Speaker 1:

Um, and in this lifetime, I'm a girl. And then the next lifetime, I'll be the boy and I'll be the husband, or I'll be the father.

Speaker 2:

And in this lifetime, you know, maybe I'm experiencing lots of blessings, which I am and then the next lifetime, maybe I'm going to experience a really hard life because my soul wants to evolve and I'm just like I don't want to do this again, like I don't know. No, no, no, no, like I totally respect that. But I think, specifically speaking to Christians who see that and they're like that's not, that's, that is not what I believe there's also, absolutely there's, so there's so little evidence for new age spirituality. That's why I am specific when I call it alternative spirituality.

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 1:

I am in the middle of reading this beautiful book. I am nowhere near done. I'm actually just in the very beginning stages, so I don't know if I can necessarily recommend it yet, but it's called the Way of the rose and I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but it's. It's talking about the rosary and the holy rosary and how it's been used throughout. You know different traditions around the world, even before Catholicism came along, to use it, and it was talking specifically about the differences between prayer and meditation, particularly between man and woman, where, you know, back in the day and the time of hunting and gathering, men were needing to go, be silent, and they walked away and to hunt, and they needed to sit in the bush very quietly and they had to still their mind, and so that became their meditation and their way of connecting in with God, whereas women, on the other hand, are very social beings.

Speaker 1:

Actually, if we weren't around other people, it was a warning sign for us. And today, even in today's world, right, we see this in motherhood. We feel so alone and what does that trigger Our mammalian brain that says warning, something isn't right. And so what we did is we practiced the Holy Rosary by repetition, by ritual, by saying a prayer over and over and over again, oftentimes not just within ourselves, but with others too, right, and so we did that while we were scrubbing dishes, while we were gathering food for our family, while we were bathing our children. Right, that is, that is what we did, and it was such a beautiful, you know, way of looking at like, you know, almost like the, the Eastern kind of way, and versus the Western and new age, versus you know the alternative which, when I hear you say like alternative spirituality, I'm really wondering is it alternative or is it just returning back to our roots?

Speaker 2:

Totally. I mean that's, that's exactly what it is. It's just spirituality. But you know, in our culture it's it's alternative. But you know, in our culture it's an alternative.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely Okay. So I have to ask you for, like, there's so many moms out there and postpartum whether they're, you know, a provider or a mom who's really drawn to practices like meditation or energy work, or following these natural inner rhythms of our bodies what does the Bible say to Christian moms who might be afraid about embracing these things? Or what does the Bible say anything about meditation and energy work in particular that would make us say, no, this is not not okay, or maybe that this is a way to fall?

Speaker 2:

So, Miranda, I just have to say I love everything that you just said regarding like it's historically dangerous for women to be alone. And I mean you and I are both kind of like outdoorsy people, so I know like when I go hiking, and especially alone, like intentionally you want to be making noise, right, Because you want to scare away predators.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's so huge here, like I teach my girls this all the time living in Alaska, right, like, if you're going outside, you better like we wear bells on our shoes, so you're constantly making noise, right yeah?

Speaker 2:

It's a total thing. And so I'm like, oh, that makes perfect sense. But like, at some point, you know, if you're walking with a group of women or you know going to take your children to the creek to bathe them or get water, like you run out of things to say, so you're going to say something broke, like maybe you'll sing or maybe you'll pray or write, and so that makes perfect sense. And so, you're right, this is a total, this is just like root spirituality, this is just human spirituality, right, but again, you know, for the purposes of conversation, we have to call it something. So in, you know, what I love about this topic and the Bible is, you know, we do have to remember that the Bible was written by men.

Speaker 2:

I do believe that it's the inspired, you know, word of God, but we also have to remember how limited the word of the human language actually is to translate God. Okay, right, like, so. I think that's something that we oftentimes forget is that, oh, this is the word of God. Like, this is literally his word, and it's just like no, no, language is so limited and God is not limited, and so for him to limit himself to our language number one, it's so merciful the way that he reaches out to us and I think that's just an indication of our merciful and loving God.

Speaker 2:

But we have to remember that no language is fully translatable right and words are, and the words are constantly changing meaning. Right and God is eternally translatable. Right Like anyone can encounter God and God never changes. So that right there shows like how limited language is in translating God. That's number one. Number two it was written by men who lived in very specific cultures. A lot of the things that we're talking about right now they didn't even know about. Right, like you know. A lot of the arguments against energy healing, for example, will say like well, there's no discussion of quantum healing in the Bible. And I'm like, yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2:

Like physics isn't actually present in the Bible, because they didn't realize that existed, right, and so what I love about this conversation is the fact that the Bible actually says shockingly little about even energy healing. It mentions astrology exactly one time. Right, the verses that people use to argue against alternative spirituality is like the verses that are against sorcery and witchcraft, but again, I mean, I think that those are talking about very specific phenomenon, such as people actually using spells, people actually trying to control the future, control other people, right, and so, even like the Catholic church you know they have this big book. It's called the catechism. The only thing that they say about astrology and kind of these again, alternative, um, things, is don't we? They don't agree with it because they don't promote, we shouldn't promote anything that attempts to predict or control the future. Right, and so energy healing, um, even astrology, because I don't use astrology in a predictive way but, yeah, you know, all these alternative forms of meditation, right, none of that falls into that category, right, and so I think that that is something that is really important for us to remember too, because we have to remember that the Bible is a religious book and the Bible is not.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't talk about every single aspect of life, right? Like we don't really find recipes in the Bible, right? Like we don't really find math in the Bible. Like certainly there's numbers and there's allusions to things, right, and there's allusions to, you know, the food that people ate and things like that, but like it's it's the the bible, unfortunately. I wish we had one, but it's not like this manual for all things regarding life on earth. Like especially would be really nice bodies. Like there's nothing in there about nothing.

Speaker 1:

Men's bodies too, really right like biology is not present, not at all right.

Speaker 2:

Right, it's not about the medicine. Yeah, it's not. It's a book of god. I love that and that's important to remember there. There are limitations there okay.

Speaker 1:

So with that, with that which is so incredibly important, like with that note this is the book of God. It's not a manual on necessarily how to live your life. It's a manual of how to be with God, right, not what you need to cook, not what you need to say while in your prayers Although we love to quote the Bible like that's really important, even even in my spiritual practices, things like that but it's not like telling you exactly how to heal your body. As a woman, I actually met someone very recently. She has been a part of the church for a very, very long time, many, many years. She plays a big role in her Christian church and it was a thread on Facebook. I actually know her very personally.

Speaker 1:

We went to high school together and somebody had mentioned like, oh, I would never, ever like use herbs to heal my body, especially like in postpartum. This is such a raw time. I need to be deeply connected with God. And she was like, wait a second. Like, really, are you like, really, are you, are you that close to healing your body?

Speaker 1:

Cause I don't know about you, but I've read the Bible multiple times and nowhere does it teach me how to heal my body and I have to take action for myself. I have to do things for myself. Otherwise, if I don't and this was the key component if I don't, then I know that I'm going to fall away from my faith and I'm not going to feel good about prayer and I'm going to. I'm going to go to God begging for help and support and not feeling seen, and, and it's going to just bring in a bunch of struggle rather than the opposite, which could be also true, where I just feel so good being connected to God and know that I am deeply supported and seen and all of the things. And it was just kind of a revelation for many people who were on there. And of course there was. You know, it's Facebook land. Everybody's going to fight about something. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know, miranda, it does something that I will say is that the Bible? I will say that it does tell us how to live our lives in some ways Typically, though, it's in relationship with other people yes, right, and so that's a really important distinction. Like it does say, you know, husbands, love your wives, women respect your husbands. And right, and there are, there are, which is triggering.

Speaker 2:

I was like that was just the one that came to mind, but I just realized I might've opened a can of worms there, so I apologize, but you know, there there are, you know, distinct. I mean it says like don't, don't um, don't drink too much, don't get drunk, right, don't lie, right Um, lots of instructions. There are lots of instructions actually for living your life. But when it comes to commandments, right, like, yeah, we have the 10 commandments, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2:

But when it comes to specifics, like there are lots of laws in the old Testament, but unless you are Jewish, we are no longer bound by the law, right and so right. So, if you are a Christian, we believe in Christ, that he overcame the law, fulfilled the law, right and so right. So, if you are a Christian, we believe in Christ, that he overcame the law, fulfilled the law and so, yes, there are there, there absolutely are ways that we can live, but those instructions are, for us, right, like my life is better if I get married and to the right guy and stay married and we have children together, right, and, and that we have this kind of godly relationship. My life is better If I don't drink too much. My life is better If I don't lie and if I don't, um, you know what have you, um?

Speaker 2:

And really the commandment that was given to us is love one another, right, like that's the most important commandment, and so if I live a life according to love, that's going to, of course, benefit others, but also it's going to benefit myself. And so I I hope that people don't see those instructions as, like you know, things that are limiting, um, but things that set you free, and I think that another way that people we really can love ourselves is by loving God and by taking advantage of all the gifts that he's given us in nature and on earth to heal ourselves, to take care of ourselves, I mean, and so I have no idea where the idea that herbs are dangerous or evil or sometimes against God, that is completely foreign to me, I have. I couldn't imagine how someone could come to that conclusion.

Speaker 1:

It's the same with yoga, it's the same with meditation, it's, you know, and I think right now we have. We live in a world full of massive fear for all of the reasons that you've stated earlier and for reasons of just simply not knowing. And oftentimes, when our society doesn't know something, or we're unfamiliar with it, or we think that we've gone down the rabbit hole and researched all of the pieces, when really it's just like components of, or it's like the textbook version of, not the real life version of and I'm guilty of this too, right, we all have these where we, you know, think we know something, and then it's like whoa, okay, that was a smack in the face. Clearly, I don't, right, like, I have those often. Um, we were actually just talking about this like, wow, this is, I can't believe. I was so immature a week ago, right, cause I learned so much.

Speaker 2:

Right, I hate myself.

Speaker 1:

Two weeks ago, you know it's so funny, um and and okay, I'm just, I'm loving everything that we're sharing here and seeing, and I'm going to bring in the movie Frozen too, because we are all moms here. You've probably watched this a million times, but you know, like, the opposite of love is not hate, it's fear. And so you just mentioned, like you know, how the Bible teaches us to love one another. It's all about the love, and living in a state of fear will not bring us closer to that love. It will also. It would just separate us even further.

Speaker 1:

And so if we're, if we're living in this constant state of I can't live with God's gifts of herbs and living with God's gift of meditation and living with the God's gift of knowledge that we are all energy, or that we have a literal moon cycle that is synced with our you know, our, our, our menstrual cycles as females.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I look at those and I'm thinking, oh, what a beautiful, beautiful God, thank you for such incredible gifts that I get to use to make my life better, to to be able to love more deeply, love God more deeply, love my family more deeply, love my neighbor more deeply. And so for anybody listening in, like, if you're feeling you know this call if you're like, okay, I really have to, I'm tuning in, I'm paying attention, like this is really calling my name. I'm going to tell you Janelle dives into the science. She dives into these conversations a lot more deeply and she has an entire YouTube channel that she has. Now. Can you tell us a little bit about your YouTube and like what you do in the conversations you're having and where people can find you?

Speaker 2:

Sure Miranda, thank you so much for this. This has been just so incredible, and I always, I always love chatting with you, but you know, I think what's something that I love about your audience, and I know because I've been a member of your audience for several years now.

Speaker 2:

But something that I love is that these are women who really love other women, right, because it's like these are providers, these are women who are willing to be with other women through the most important time of a woman's life, which is like that transition into motherhood, and it's just. It is so sacred, it's so beautiful, and so I know that anyone listening really loves and wants the best for themselves, their children, other people, children and other people, and so I can really understand, you know, this desire to not, to not go into darkness right, to not do the wrong thing. Right, because I think a lot of us, in particular as women, we have experienced people doing the wrong thing to us and people operating in the darkness and operating from a place of of fear or malicious intent, right and um, and so I I just want to say that you know God, jesus says. God says so often in the Bible do not be afraid. Right, and something really important to Miranda, before I dive into um, to where people can find me, I just want to say so. In the Bible it says do not be afraid. So many times. So God really wants us to be operating from a place of love and not fear. That much is clear in the Bible. If you get one thing from the Bible, it is a story of love and not fear, and triumph over fear and death.

Speaker 2:

But the other thing that I love is that in the New Testament, jesus praises three people for their faith, only three. Where he praises their faith Okay, two are women, one are men, two are pagans and one is an ostracized Jew Okay, none of the people that he raised their faith. Actually, to the Roman centurion, who was a pagan, he said I have not found such faith in Israel like the most faith. And Jesus was there for the Jewish people, for the chosen people. It wasn't the Jews that were following the law, it wasn't the people that were doing everything. Perfectly, jesus praised the faith of two pagans and one person who was ostracized from her Jewish religion because she had been hemorrhaging for 12 years. I just really want to point that out to anyone listening who is in a relationship of fear with God, regardless of whether or not you're Christian, god loves you and God really, really wants you to come to him in faith of his love. Right, and so again, whichever path you're choosing to approach him, go for it. But I just wanted to point that out.

Speaker 1:

I hope that's okay, I have goosebumps. I'm so glad that you pointed that out, thank you, thank you, like you, literally okay, this is weird. You have two doors behind you. Like you can choose love or you can choose fear.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, miranda, I just so appreciate you having me on. I am really intentionally trying to grow my YouTube channel. I just really want to get this information out to as many people as possible. I think, you know, if I were probably smarter and had a better strategy, I would reach more women on like Instagram and TikTok. But a lot of the arguments and a lot of the like fundamentalism that I'm seeing in the Christian world is happening on YouTube and I just really felt the strong call of just like I need to go where the fighting is, like I need to go to the front lines, right, um, and so I'm really intentionally growing YouTube right now. Um, and so anyone can find me, it's Janelle M Lara at Janelle and Lara. So, um, youtubecom slash and I'm sure that'll be linked below. And um, yeah, I am, I'm just putting out my research. So I already have a YouTube video on there about Reiki and the church. Um, I have another video why are Christians afraid of astrology, which is a big one, I'm tackling all the hot topics.

Speaker 2:

Miranda next semester. I'm talking about the truth, about the traditional family, so maybe we can chat about that, but yeah, okay, this is a conversation we have to have, yeah. Right, right, like yeah, it's like I am just like every button, all the trigger points, like I'm just like chomping at the bit. So that's yeah, that's what I'm up to and that's where people can find me. I would be so honored if you come out with me there.

Speaker 1:

Go follow her. You have to. You have to follow her work and honestly, thank you so much for being here, Beyond the fact that you're my bestie, like I am just so grateful for your conversations and everything that you're sharing here. So may it. May it help people find God even more, so thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Miranda, and the feeling is mutual. You are one of my favorite human beings and definitely someone that I call a best friend. That's a big topic with my children right now. They're like are you my best friend, Miranda? You're my best friend.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love it. Thank you For sure, miranda, you're my best friend.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I love it. Thank you For sure.

Speaker 1:

I am so grateful you turned into the Postpartum University podcast. We've hoped you enjoyed this episode enough to leave us a quick review. And, more importantly, I hope more than ever that you take what you've learned here, applied it to your own life and consider joining us in a postpartum university membership. It's a private space where mothers and providers learn the real truth and the real tools needed to heal in the years postpartum. You can learn more at wwwpostpartumucom. We'll see you next week.