Postpartum University® Podcast

The Missing Partner in Postpartum Care: Why Excluding Fathers Harms Maternal Health | Eric Stein EP 241

• Maranda Bower, Postpartum Nutrition Specialist

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As a postpartum provider, you already know the postpartum anxiety and postpartum depression epidemic is real. But we are avoiding a massive blind spot. We’re talking about the missing partner in postpartum care—the fathers. 

Eric Stein, co-founder of Restorative Roots (the nationwide postpartum meal delivery service), to dive deep into how sidelining the masculine partner is costing maternal health dearly, often fueling postpartum resentment and a profound lack of safety. This isn't just about making dads feel useful; it’s about functional postpartum recovery and safeguarding the mother's entire well-being. Eric shares his raw journey from an unprepared first-time father to a fully present birth partner and why finding a men’s group was the game-changer for his family's harmony. Learn how, as a provider, you can help your clients' family dynamics and foster genuine holistic postpartum health for both parents.

Check out this episode on the blog HERE. 

Key time stamps: 

  • 01:55: Why most fathers feel unprepared and excluded from postpartum care.
  • 02:22: The cost of sidelining partners: increased maternal anxiety and slow progress.
  • 03:07: Addressing the guilt of partners who can't take time off work.
  • 04:03: Provider tip: Tailor communication to the partner (listener, talker, reader).
  • 06:23: Societal pressure and why men feel pushed out of the birth process.
  • 08:43: The trap of "robot mode" doing vs. the power of being present.
  • 09:48: The missing inter-generational transfer of fatherhood knowledge.
  • 10:18: Addressing postpartum resentment when partners are unsupportive.
  • 14:30: Defining "masculine leadership" as showing up prepared and confident.
  • 15:30: Why partner self-care is mandatory before the baby arrives.
  • 20:41: The #1 intervention: Men's support groups for direct, masculine feedback.
  • 25:59: Call to action: Providers must create or push men's groups for support.

Connect with Eric: 

Co-founder of Restorative Roots,  (formerly known as Mama Meals) a nationwide postpartum meal delivery company.  He spent the last 3.5 years growing their business from weekly pickups out of their garage to nationwide direct-to-consumer frozen delivery right to your door.

Website 

NEXT STEPS:

SPEAKER_01:

The postpartum care system is failing, leaving countless mothers struggling with depression, anxiety, and autoimmune conditions. I'm Miranda Power, and I've helped thousands of providers use holistic care practices to heal their clients at the root. Subscribe now and join us in addressing what modern medicine overlooks so that you can give your clients real lasting solutions for lifelong well-being. Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. Today I am going to talk about the missing partner in postpartum care. And today I actually have Eric Stein, the Eric Stein, co-founder of Restorative Roots, which is a nationwide postpartum meal delivery company. He spent the last 3.5 years growing their business from weekly pickups out of the garage to nationwide direct-to-consumer frozen delivery, like right to your door. Holly is his wife. You might know her from social media and uh just a fabulous, fabulous company. I love working with them. We've actually partnered and are doing a lot of uh some amazing stuff together. Actually, I was just chatting with Holly via text and we were talking, she's got like all these other ideas. I'm super excited about it. So you might even see some more stuff from us, which is super fun. But Eric, welcome. I'm so, so glad that you're here and having this conversation with us.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat and um share my perspectives, share my learnings, and uh just help the birth community. That's really what it's gonna be all about.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. And Holly, Holly is amazing. And she, I I know I've seen her, I've heard her say this that you are the perfect birth partner. That's incredible. But and and I feel like most fathers feel completely unprepared and excluded from this whole postpartum care process. What's what's that cost maternal health care when we kind of sideline partners in that way?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I mean, the cost is is anxiety, really. I mean, if if the masculine is is showing up like unprepared and there's not like a really aura of confidence, then the feminine, the woman, she's gonna feel anxious, right? Progress is gonna slow, she might not feel as safe. I think the cost is is is way bigger than people need to talk about. And and I think that's probably why it's hard to describe the feeling that I had when Holly said that because it was like so much validation in all the work I did and leading up to all of our births. Now we've had three. And um yeah, I think the to touch back on that, the cost is really anxiety in in the situation, which is is really difficult to deal with.

SPEAKER_01:

I know a lot of fathers who can't attend every appointment, you know, like going to the prenatal appointments. My husband was one of them. He he did his best, he could take off when he could take off, and he showed up to a lot. Uh, but you know, out of four kids, there was many that he could not attend and he he was there supporting our family financially, just wasn't possible for him to show up in that way. And then there were many times that like we were super blessed. He was able to take off from my last birth for like two and a half months, which is absolutely insane. Not a lot of people have that option to have that. Um, but we were, and it was paid and it was absolutely amazing and so necessary. But again, like most dads don't get that opportunity and they have to be back to work, you know, very quickly after, especially here in the US. Like, how can providers meaningfully include partners without creating guilt or unrealistic expectations?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, great question. It's gonna be different for every partner, right? I think one of the most important things to do is to understand how the partner communicates, whether they're a listener, whether they're a talker, whether they're a reader, you know, whatever information you want to communicate to the partner, you want to try to do it in a way that's gonna be most effective. So that's a big, uh, I think a missed opportunity a lot of providers have. They might just be sending emails when the the guy reading it is like not a reader. He needs to hear it, right? He might need a phone call, he might need an audio message of this information, and it will it will be incorporated and absorbed or received much more um effectively. And I think that's a big big deal. Um, providers can definitely up their resource gain around this, like all the different resources that exist now for dads and uh finding men's groups and stuff. Like there's there were so many things that I did that that helped, and and providers could definitely have something like a packet almost ready for that. And then, and just to touch on the the taking time off thing, uh man, you know, that you said it what a blessing that was for you guys to have that much time. And same with us on our third, like I I took so much time off just because we we could we could do it. But I I'll also say that on our first birth, uh the story I told myself was that I didn't have the time to take off. And the story I told myself is that we needed to make more money to so I had to go back to work early, or you know, that my my boss was going to not allow me to do that because they asked, you know, they wanted me to come back kind of quickly. But I would just I would encourage, you know, push hard, but push them back on that, you know, like, hey, are you sure that that's a true story? Because if I look back on it and I'm honest, it wasn't a true story. I could have taken more time off and been more present, and it would have made our first birth probably much better, and we would have been fine. So I think there's a little nuance there, but um, certainly the provider can can have a lot of resources, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, why do you think that is? Like I I almost feel and I and I sense like there's this obligation, like, this is the way that I can serve, I can provide for my family, right? And we almost have it intertwined into our our societal expectations of men, like this is your responsibility. I wonder if that plays a role. Like what's your what's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I think, well, I think men have been pushed out of birth so much, too, that that's just how they feel they're gonna be able to show up is to, all right, well, look, I'll make the money so we go to the appointments and and do the things. But, you know, I think um the presence is also a very powerful thing, especially for the mom leading into it, right? And so I was always trying to be as present as I could and go to as many things as I could. And then it ultimately led to the best birth experience that we've ever had, like from our third, right? Going from the first and all the stories to our third and all the extra time that I took. I mean, Holly will tell you it was it was easily the best birth experience. So yeah, societal pressure flow for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I would say that for my husband as well. Like it was a night and day difference from in the very beginning. Like, I think there was a learning curve for him. I was a single mom with my first. And so with he, you know, he came around on the second, and that was his first. But I also felt like, okay, you got to know this, this, and this. And he was kind of like, oh, okay, well, I'll do my best. Right. And then that baby happened, and then he was like a hundred percent like, oh, now I get it. Now I understand. I'm a hundred, like, I'm all in. So it was the third one, but I also felt like I didn't quite have the language, which is is crazy because this is the work that I've been doing for the last 15 years, but I still didn't know exactly how to translate that into like what I need and how to have him show up in that way. And so it's very interesting. Like I one there was like this learning curve, and then there was a learning curve for me and making sure that I communicated really effectively. Like, these are all the things that I need. And he was like, No problem, got it, got it, got it. Right. And then showed up in all of those spaces. And there was a lot of spaces. There was like making food for our our, you know, myself and all of our children, right? There was um making sure that like the little things got taken care of in terms of like feeding the animals and like and it's not necessarily little, but like showing up in that way, but also showing up for the baby and getting to know the baby. There was a lot of things that were on his plate, and it was probably a little hard to juggle. Did you feel that as well?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah. The the like the third one, I think I was trying so hard to do all the things. And there was actually a point during postpartum, during the first like 40 days period too, where Holly just broke down and cried, and she was like, she like I had been in this like almost robot mode of like trying to do everything. Like I would bring her breakfast in bed every day, doing all the dishes, doing the drop-offs with the kids, do this, do that. Like, I thought me just doing more was going to lead to like what like make her feel better. But one day she just broke down crying. She's like, I just want you to sit in bed and eat with me. Like what and I and I all of a sudden I was like, Oh my gosh, I have just completely forgotten about just that presence. And and that presence is so powerful. But yeah, yeah, that's a it's interesting. But I had to learn just like your husband, too. You know, like I didn't know what I was doing the first one. And you know what? Now that we're talking about this, it just came to me. My I didn't hear anything from my parents. Who's yeah, we're poor society, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, this isn't this isn't something men get to witness.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, they don't get to witness it. Our parents didn't. And like my dad didn't sit me down. He's like, hey, this is this is the most important time. Here's all the things that you need to look out for. This is what you should do, this is what worked for me and didn't work for me. I want you to do better than me. Like it never happened. So I just went into it blind, and I think a lot of men, same thing, you know, and uh, but we learn, you know, we learn number three, right? Just third time is a charm.

SPEAKER_01:

That's how it was for us for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I also want to address the elephant in the room because so many women feel like they have postpartum depression because of their unsupportive partner. Like if they had a partner who showed up and wasn't on their phone and didn't disappear for 30 minutes to the toilet, like those things would they they wouldn't experience the level of depression and and fear and pain that they do. Resentment is real in postpartum, right? So, what about those women who have partners who are not stepping up?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's tough. I mean, it's like you can't you can't make someone step step up, right? Like you can't, you can't change what's already done. And yeah, it's that's a that's a tough thing to do. I think the only thing the women can do is just is just focus on honoring that time and doing the things that they need to, they know they need to do rest, recover, bond, maybe find a support group. Gosh, like tell tell your man how he or your partner how he's feeling or how you're feeling, right? Like in a way too, that's not that's not like you need to do this, you need to do that. It's like express how you're feeling, let those emotions out, let the let the pain come out, right? And then I think the the man can see that and he'll know, right? He'll know what he needs to do at that point. But it's a tough situation to to be in in that point. I would say give the give the guy a chance, you know, like tell him how you're really feeling, tell him what you really need, and do it from the heart and and um give him a chance to step up. That's all you can really do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think this is one of those areas that needs to happen and needs to be a conversation in pregnancy about, you know, all of the things like we talk about, you know, before you get married, you should have these conversations. Well, before the birth of the baby, like this is this is one of those conversations, but also one of those things that we bring up and talk about in the postpartum, you know, six-week checkup, which I know is our only checkup, but thankfully, hopefully, many I think providers are doing something different. They're actually having more of these uh uh appointments and check-ins. And this needs to be a question like, how is your your partner? How how are you communicating? Like, how does that feel? And there's always a strain, right? There's if things change, things shift during this time. But let's navigate this together so that resentment doesn't grow because resentment is is one of the biggest marriages. Yep. How do we how do we manage and work around and do this? And I find like so often, this is the time when when families go to therapy, which is fabulous, and they get to work things out. Um, but this is also the time where a lot of women say, wait a second, this was the wrong choice. This was not where I need to be. And I think both of those need to be honored, uh, especially when there's like this whole I'm supporting us and being together and doing all of this work, right? Sometimes work can feel one-sided and that's not fair. But if you do the work, right, and you're showing up in that way as much as you can, it's such a nuanced thing, right? Yeah. One of the things that you you mentioned is masculine leadership and birth. Like that's a like just saying that for a second, masculine leadership and birth. Like, what does that look like versus the current model?

SPEAKER_02:

That looks like showing up prepared. That looks like really taking care of yourself leading up to the birth. That looks like advocating for the feminine in that really special time. A week before the due date, I had a checklist. Right. Or I had a checklist well before a week before due date. But a week before the due date, I started executing this checklist, and it was every single morning I would do the same thing. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Check everything off. And um, and every single day I was ready for that baby to come. Like after I got all the loose ends were tied up, everything's cleaned up, the space is ready. That there was just everything was ready to go at any moment, every single day, starting a week before. So, like, think about how calm and confident I was going into that. Like, I was ready at any time. And then when the time came, I was of course ready, right? I wasn't like running home from work, or I wasn't like tying up loose ends or doing doing something that needed to be fixing something that needed to be fixed, you know, things like that. So yeah, it shows it it it shows up as as really being prepared and um and taking care of yourself. You need to you need to be taking care of yourself before the baby comes. Because you can't fill from an empty cup, right? Everybody knows that. You can't show up and and hold strength and confidence in that moment if you're about to fall apart at any moment, you know? So I think that's what it what it shows up for like. And um I really recommend finding other men to talk to. I think that's just that is something that changed my life in a really big way. I found a men's group and I and I just let out what I was going through and what my problems were. And it was just like I got the the brothers right back at me, were like, hey, dude, have you thought about it like this? Think about this. Uh, this is what's happening from my perspective. And it it just totally changed me as a person. So I I think that um that kind of stuff, it only comes from being around other, you know, masculine men though. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I feel it's it's not something that you see often. Like, and I'm wondering from a father's perspective perspective, like what resources are out there for fathers? Like what gaps are you seeing that need to be filled, especially by say the provider? And and I have a funny story on that because I felt like I with my with my first, I had a partner. We separated at six months postpartum, but I had five different providers. There's like it was a million different things that were going wrong, like walking in on me undressing, tell me they don't care, they see like just like very much just uh patriarchal. I don't care what you think. This is the way it's gonna go. Um, and just overstepping boundaries. And not once in any of those five different providers where there's any talk about the partner, except for are you being abused by your partner? Is your home safe with your partner?

SPEAKER_02:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

That was the only thing that I had until I found my midwife who has uh helped us through all four pregnancies as at this point. And she's been absolutely incredible. But it wasn't until her where she was like, How's your relationship? How do you feel in that relationship? And just asking those questions. So anyway, I'm I'm I'm just sharing that story because it's coming to me as you're talking. Like the only thing that I remember in all of those providers was and and I see this often in trainings that I attend, are you assessing for danger?

SPEAKER_02:

And that's it. It's it's uh what a gap. What a gap. You know what else too? As you were talking, I just it just came to me. You know, for the man, you know, it's it's not a good time to be during this, like leading up to birth and uh and especially postpartum. You don't need to be right. Any anything that like, you know, you're I'm trying to lead the family and I'm trying to do this for our best good, and all the things that you may have conflict going on, that stuff needs to just go out the door for a while. You can come back to it later, you know, but it's just about like let's let's make the home happy and safe and calm, and then we can address, you know, any disagreements later on. That was just another another way to show up in a masculine way, just as a as it came.

SPEAKER_01:

Happy wife, happy life, right?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, it's a real thing. It's a real thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What do you think that is? Like what what is that that makes that true?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I mean, happy wife, happy life, happy husband, happy wife, happy life too, right? I feel like just just trying to to bring out the happiness in the other is what will create a happy life, right? You can't you can't like force the other person to be happy. You gotta give them an opportunity, though, right? And I think it goes both ways too. Like if the if the woman is pouring into the man and talking him up and supporting him even when he makes mistakes and just being that like emotional foundation for the relationship, he's just gonna turn into the best version of himself and pour that right back on her, right? You can't it can't just be both, you know, one way, but especially in that time of like pregnancy, birth, postpartum, like the the um, it's okay to be a little one-sided, I guess, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01:

For sure, for sure. I think there there comes a point where she has uh intricately more needs, right? And more things that she has to work through and uh places that she's holding within herself that need to be addressed more so than say the father's perspective, right? If maybe if he was birthing a baby, but uh really like there's so much that goes into that energetically, physically, mentally, emotionally. And so I can definitely see where that becomes like, you know, the the focal point of you know, the kind of the relationship until that baby's birthed and cared for, and and then we start transitioning into other, you know, toddlerhood and things. And then we can come back to uh where are we in this space as well.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, and that's uh too another another benefit of having some some other men around you would be they can call you out. It's hard for a woman to call out a man in this way just because it's like we're just different, you know, like we we operate differently, we have different, what's that book called? Men are from Mars, Women are from some like quintessential iconic book of like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, you to have another man look at you and be like, dude, shut up. Like, what are you doing right now? That's not important. And then you have to you get a chance to reflect. Talk somebody talks to you like a man. You know, providers could really, you know, in in dealing with the the men or the masculine, they they could really summon their inner masculine in that way and talk to them like that. You know, be very direct, you know, don't beat around the bush, don't like insinuate things. Like tell me exactly what's going on here and why I should care. And then like just that's what the that's what the masculine appreciates. So that would be a good as we're talking through this, a good tip for the the providers for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

That's beautiful. Do you do you think that that's something that moms would be able to do too? Because I look back, like that's what my husband really wanted me to do. Like, obviously, not beat around the bush, not, you know, well, I would really like this, or you know, no, tell them exactly like this is important, this is what I need, and this is how it needs to be done.

SPEAKER_02:

Like, you know, and it's yeah, you could do it, right? Um Holly was really she was good at it. She used to be a wedding planner, so she was like, she was used to telling everybody what to do. Because everybody would come to her and be like, What do you want me to do? And she would just do it. But if you want to hear something funny, that was that was uh actually starting our business was the the beginning of the shift of that because she was showing up very much in the masculine and I was showing up very much in the feminine in our relationship. And I was more than happy for her to just tell me what to do. And then when the business started going well and things were growing, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave this, we had this like come to Jesus moment of like, wait a minute, that's not how this is gonna work. Like, our roles are reversed. And I was actually in the men's group at that time, and they all pointed it out. They're like, dude, you need to you need to step up and she needs to go take a more of a backseat in this. And if you're gonna drive this ship while she's staying home with kids and homeschooling and doing all this stuff, like she can't drive the ship, but you can't you're I'm not the type of person that's just gonna be like, tell me exactly what to do, and I'm just gonna do it. Like, I gotta I'll steer. You just tell me where to steer, right? Like, tell me where we're going, I'll steer the ship. Anyway, it was uh it was very much a um a turbulent time for our relationship when we started to understand this, me specifically, and started to change. And uh it was it was yeah, it was a tough experience. But on the other side of it was like harmony in our relationship that we had no idea existed, you know, it was cool.

SPEAKER_01:

You bring up a lot of points about the feminine and the masculine, and I think this is an ongoing conversation to have. Like there's so much benefit to understanding, and we all have aspects of masculine and feminine within us, right? And when we are operating in a very kind of almost balanced, cohesive manner. And I don't balance is probably the wrong word for it. Like it's more of like an ebb and flow, yeah. I find for myself and my relationship and everything that I do. I mean, I I am a CEO of a company. There's a lot of masculine play things in place, um, but there's also a lot of feminine too, and that I get to lean into, which is so amazing, and to see that transpire into motherhood and and also fatherhood for my husband and and all of those things is a beautiful, beautiful thing. I'm curious, like, how did you come into this understanding of masculine and feminine? Because I feel like the conversation for women, like this, this is uh almost trending. Like you can you see it all over Instagram, like there's there's whole accounts on the masculine and the feminine, right? But you don't hear a lot of men talking about this.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Um, I think it was trial by fire, and it was the men's group that I was in. I mean, they're the ones who even opened my eyes to it in the first place. I don't know if I had really come across it much on I think I had, maybe on social media and read some things, but not until I sat in front of a bunch of other men and told them what I was going through and had them look at me and be like, dude, like this is what's happening. And it was like, oh, okay. Like I got to actually sit in the fire with it, was like six other dudes around me that I didn't even really know well either. It was one of my buddies and like five other guys that he knew from a gym. And they're all these, they're all they're all like jacked and talking about their feelings and stuff. I was like, oh wow, this is cool. But they just told me what was up. And it was, I felt so fortunate to be to be a part of that at that time. So I think uh yeah, the I'll go back to that a lot. Like, men need to be talking to other men about this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that's like the whole takeaway from this. Like, find a men's group, have a men's group, make that readily available, push that men's group. If you're a provider, moms, like make sure find some men's groups. Like that sounds like the thing to do. That's important.

SPEAKER_02:

Providers, oh my gosh, provider making a men's group around this specifically and giving them some guidance and especially having like the like think about me in a men's group about birth. I've been I've done it three times. Like, think about what I could give to the guy coming in for the first time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Like you would it would do a lot. It would do a lot. I think we just figured out what we need to do, Miranda. I think I think that's the next, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's it. That's absolutely beautiful. We need to figure that out.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, uh I like my head is spinning. Okay, y'all. Thank you so much for being here. We got to go talk. Uh, but really, this has been this has been so transformative and so amazing. And um, this is not the only time that you're gonna hear from Eric and I and Holly as well, because we we have partnered together in this uh beautiful space that is postpartum. You know, I do a lot of education and we obviously have the postpartum nutrition certification. And we also use uh restorative roots for the work that we're doing because we have a lot of providers that we support that are not in the kitchen, that can't be in the kitchen, right? If you're a doctor, if you're a midwife, um, if you're, you know, sometimes even a doula and you just don't want to cook in the kitchen, right? There is restorative roots. And that's where we're going to get the right foods, the organic, homemade, you know, direct to consumer, like deliver straight to your door. It's revolutionary. It's such a beautiful, beautiful thing that you all have created. And I'm so grateful for this relationship and the expansion.

SPEAKER_00:

It's so funny because I'm seeing, you know, you're you're right now in your kitchen and there's like these massive boxes towering over you right now that somebody's like wheeling away. I know that you guys listening on the podcast can't see that, but this is like it's absolutely hysterical as I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02:

We're making a lot of food in here. We're making a lot of food in here. It's it's really great. And we've we just keep those same principles though, like clean ingredients, everything's organic or regenerative. We're big believers in regenerative agriculture and supporting the the farms that are healing the land. And uh yeah, cook it in bone broth, freeze it, ship it right to your door. That's what we're doing here. That's what we're doing here. We're we're grateful to be a part of what you're doing too and partnering here. I thank you for yeah, for what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01:

Is there anything that you wish I asked you that I had yet to ask?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I think you covered it. I think you covered it. I think we we got to the bottom of a lot of stuff. I think we got to the bottom of a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

I I feel so excited about this next phase for us. Where can people find you who are listening into the podcast? Obviously, we're gonna have your links uh in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, um, we're on social, on Instagram, is our big thing, is uh at eat.restorative roots. Our website's restorativeroots.com. And uh you can always shoot us an email. I see all the emails. Yeah, we're around. We're around.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Thank you so much, Eric. It's been such a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks, Miranda.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks so much for being a part of this crucial conversation. I know you're dedicated to advancing postpartum care. And if you're ready to dig deeper, come join us on our newsletter where I share exclusive insights, resources, and the latest tools to help you make a lasting impact on postpartum health. Sign up at postpartum you the letter you.com, which is in the show notes. And if you found today's episode valuable, please leave a review to help us reach more providers like you. Together, we're building a future where mothers are fully supported and thriving.

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Maranda Bower

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